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10 000 YEARS AGO

Posted 29 June 2003, 9.33 pm by The Green Mamba

I used to hate history … endless reams of facts screaming at you about people who died long ago … I couldn’t see the point. But there’s a distinct difference between the history they teach you about in school and History. The first is about a series of events leading up to the present … the other teaches you what it means to be human.

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…”

That’s what the Bible teaches us … and that, to many people is the beginning … the Genesis of the Universe and all the life that it contains ... no further questions. For those of us who seek answers beyond that … history always fails … but not necessarily History. We delve deeper … not only into the history of human nature … but into the very nature of all existence … to the very beginning.

Every religion, every culture has a myth detailing the origin of life and in recent years the similarities between the various myths have fascinated me greatly. Dragonfly is an expert at it and unlike me, can give exact details of not only events that are similar, but even similarities in the symbolism contained in the various origin myths. Once you start looking at these, one thing becomes more relevant than any other … they all have a common origin. Somewhere beyond the endless reams of information and religious symbols lies the truth … and for some strange reason (or maybe Reason is the cause) … the truth has become obscured by time.

Daniel Quinn (Ishmael) successfully pinpointed the birth of Modern Culture to the “invention” of agriculture, in the Fertile Crescent, 10 000 years ago. His conclusions came about because of his research into pre-history. With archaeological evidence as his only source for making this conclusion, some might still find grounds for an argument.

Recently however, I received this email from Dragonfly, with the following quote from The Path:

Castaneda writes that the shamans of his lineage see the human being as a luminous egg when in a type of Shamanistic State of Consciousness, a luminous egg made of infinite fibres of energy, which in-turn connect to everything else in the universe. Now, also in his lineage is the belief in “flyers” (although for them it is an empirical, witnessed fact, they would say), predators that feed on the energy of human awareness, or more specifically, self-interest or self-centeredness.

“The flyers are not metaphors. They are not the IB’s. The flyers are predators who feast on the glow of awareness on our luminous eggs. More recently, the nagual Castaneda has said that the flyers are responsible for the "installation" of our egocentric thinking processes, about 10,000 years ago. The mind is the fifth column, a foreign installation. The seventh Toltec art, discipline and impeccable action, makes our awareness unpalatable to the flyers.”

10,000 years ago, when, according to Daniel Quinn, man decided he was the centre of the universe, the product of evolution. What interests me is that this comes from a completely different arena than Daniel Quinn.

That was the start of our search … and the more we searched the more we found…

Modern day sorcerers say that taking energy from this realm is tricky because the inorganic beings do not dole out their energy for free and want something in return. Warriors say that this realm covets the energy of organic beings because it is so different from their own. They say that humans of ancient times knew about the realm of the inorganic beings but the only concept that has survived from this knowledge is the idea of "selling your soul to the devil".

"Castaneda's teachers differentiated themselves from the sorcerers of ancient times, saying that their aims were drastically different. While the sorcerers of ancient times used their abilities to dominate others and concentrated their efforts on the manipulation of awareness within the world as we know it"

If they were more aware than normal people, perhaps they were keyed in on more energy, and thus their effect would be much more than just a normal persons.

Could this be yet another vital clue in determining the origin of religion?

If the sorcerers of old, with their great capacity for energy, created or shaped the Beast, it all makes sense. The Beast is in every person more or less, because of the inter-connectivity of all things via The Holographic Universe theory. The sorcerers of old are in us now. Those people and those societies that were closer to the Beast than others manifested It, and thus started the momentous movement of what we call civilisation, in various points of the world (Aztecs, Chinese, Egyptians, etc). Also, distant healing is a kind of proof to this point. We can affect others through our persevered intention. Also, if the sorcerers of the old world and of present day use energy to stop ageing, then it’s a good idea to look into “anti-aging” techniques of the world (usually falling into two classifications: external, like elixirs of the middle ages, and internal, like in Taoism).

It is both frightening and reassuring ... seeing The Beast unfold ... knowing your enemy is the first step to defeating it.

Under normal circumstances I wouldn’t have given Castaneda a second thought and neither would I have expected anybody else to. Frankly … on its own it sounds like one man’s mumbling about whole lot of mumbo-jumbo … that is, until you look into Quantum Physics and find startling similarities between what he describes as “the realm of inorganic beings” and “The Holographic Universe”. Only then did I realise that under the watchful eye of human logic, these similarities just shouldn’t be there … and yet they are.

Next ... AN ELABORATE LIGHTSHOW

The Green Mamba
on 30 June 2003, 12.16 pm
Dragonfly sent me this sometime between submitting the article and Alexander giving it the go-ahead. Anyways ... for those of you who are inclined to question Castaneda's motives (like I did), the quotes are from "Details" Magazine: The first time I read Castaneda's books, and for a long time after, I considered his books fiction - that is, I held an open mind on whether the contents were factual or not, but I read them mostly for entertainment, like any other fiction book. Anyway, here it is.. "They've been trying to pin him down for years. They even reconstructed his face from memories of old colleagues and dubious acquaintances; the absurd result looks like a police artist's rendering of benevolent Olmec man for Reader's Digest. In the '70s, a photo appeared in a Time cover story (only the eyes were visible)-when the magazine learned the model was a counterfeit, they never forgave him." "His agent and lawyers are full-time hedges against the onslaught of correspondents and crazies, spiritual hang gliders, New Age movers and seekers, artists wishing to adapt his work- famous and unknown, with or without permission-and bogus seminars replete with Carlos impersonators. After thirty years, there is still no price on his head. He has no interest in gurus or guruism; there will be no turbo Bentleys, no ranches of turbaned devotees, no guest-edit of Paris Vogue. There will be no Castaneda Institute, no Center for Advanced Sorcery Studies, no Academy of Dreaming-no infomercials, mushrooms, or Tantric sex. There will be no biographies and there will be no scandals. When he's invited to lecture, Castaneda receives no fee and offers to pay his travel fare. The gate is usually a few dollars, to cover rental of the hall. All that is asked of attendees is their total attention. ""Freedom is free," he says. "It cannot be bought or understood. With my books, I've tried to present an option-that awareness can be a medium for transportation or movement. I haven't been so convincing; they think I'm writing novels. If I were tall and hanclsome, things might be different-they would listen to the Big Daddy. People say, 'You're Iying.' How could I be Iying? You only lie to get something, to manipulate. I don't want anything from anyone - only consensus. We'd like there to be consensus that there are worlds besides our own. If there's consensus to grow wings then there'll be flight. With consensus comes mass; with mass there will be movement." "Castaneda and his confederates are the energetic radicals of what may be the only significant revolution of our time - nothing short of transforming the biological imperative into an evolutionary one. If the sovereign social order commands procreation, the fearless order of sorcerers (energetic pirates all) is after something less, well, terrestrial. Their startling, epical intent is to leave the earth the way don Juan did twenty years before: as sheer energy, awareness intact. Sorcerers call this somersault "the abstract flight.""


Dragonfly
on 30 June 2003, 11.56 pm
Some thoughts have occured to me during and since this article.... One is the similarity of the Sorcerer's view of the world, and the Holographic Universe theory (as I understand it): The Sorcerer sees the universe “as a matrix of energy shot through by incandescent strands of consciousness – actual awareness. Those strands formed braids containing inclusive worlds, each as real as this” [from an interview in Details magazine], which is only one among an infinity. Doesn’t this remind you of the description of a holographic film? The film “looks like a meaningless swirl of light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the original object appears.” [Talbots book.] Castaneda believes people to be "capable of traveling along those incandescent strands to other worlds." Strands of light... Another one that I've been troubled by is, meditators around the world have been concentrating and perfecting silencing the ceaseless chatter of the mind, the "inner dialogue"; however, nowhere so far have I read similar accounts to Castaneda's "stopping the world", which he finally succeeded by prolonged silencing of the inner dialogue. The experience that Castaneda describes is seeing the energy - that makes the universe - directly, as it actually is, prior to the interpretation of the mind: strands of energy, of awareness, extending from every point in the universe to every other point (a mind-boggling concept...don't they get tangled?). I puzzled on the uniqueness of this experience (unique to Castaneda and his lineage of sorcerers), until today I found an article that explained it... "To break the certainty that the world is the way you have always been taught you must learn a new description of the world--sorcery--and then hold the old and the new together. Then you will see that neither description is final. At that moment you slip between the descriptions; you stop the world and see. You are left with wonder; the true wonder of seeing the world without interpretation." And; "In European membership the world is built largely from what the eyes report to the mind. In sorcery the total body is used as a perceptor." [Seeing CASTANEDA: Sam Keen; Psychology Today, 1972. A good article.] Thus, lets say the Buddhist that achieves "samadhi", or total cessation of thoughts (over-simplified), does not achieve the awareness that Castaneda describes, because not only are they limited to this world of ours, while a sorcerer knows two, but they haven't learnt awareness with their full body either, and are limited only to the physical senses.


Alexander
on 1 July 2003, 8.17 am
Apologies for the lack of line breaks folks, this has now been fixed.

I hope.


Alexander
on 1 July 2003, 8.17 am
Yes, it has.


smidgin
on 3 July 2003, 2.11 am
Hmm links with quatum phsics hu? the universe connected with strands of light hu? complete twaddle, religion was developed universally in various forms because humans wish to feel that thier short and paltry life has some greater purpose, so the concept of god was created to explain things that couldnt be explained at the time, and to give people hope before they snuffed it, in my opinion religion has no purpose in these modern, ages in which we have disproved the bible and church so many times, as for the universe being connected all at once with strands of light? light only travels at 3 million k a second, to cross the universe it would take a millennia, doesnt sound very connected to me, sounds worse than my mobile phone in scotland for reception, also time is relative to speed, there fore if a beem of light from us travels to another galaxy that is spinning 4 times as fast as ours, time would be slower in that galaxy than ours, so even if the light was to arrive instantaneously it would arrive out of synch with that galaxys time frame, i love seeing idiots with a science book making up stuff to sound cosmic and mystical, and then hiding behind techno babal they obviously dont understand and hope nobody else does either, you are a bundle of organic matter with a slightly higher iq than a monkey when put in large groups we can create great stuff as can ants but we are no higher spiritually than they and neither do we have souls, we are just clever enough to be scared of dying.


The Green Mamba
on 3 July 2003, 7.00 am
Hahaha - that sounds exactly like me, less than a month ago. Incedently, have you read all the source documents as per "Introduction" (two articles back)? All we did really, was connect the dots between two fields that normally would not be placed next to each other.

And yes, I'm not an expert at Quantum Physics, but at least I'm not ignorant enough to assume that the normal laws of physics also apply quantum physics.

Also - light is only a form of energy (Read the article on Light, Matter and The Zero-point Field) and I don't recall literally saying that everything in the Universe is connected with beams of light.


The Green Mamba
on 3 July 2003, 7.11 am
Let me add to that. Everything in the Universe is made up of the same building blocks ... Protons, electrons and neautrons (and whatever lies beyond that) and as much as we like to believe, there are not really any "open spaces" (empty voids) between these ... so everything in the Universe "touches sides" on a sub-atomic level.


smidgin
on 3 July 2003, 9.55 am
Hmm links with quatum phsics hu? the universe connected with strands of light hu? complete twaddle, religion was developed universally in various forms because humans wish to feel that thier short and paltry life has some greater purpose, so the concept of god was created to explain things that couldnt be explained at the time, and to give people hope before they snuffed it, in my opinion religion has no purpose in these modern, ages in which we have disproved the bible and church so many times, as for the universe being connected all at once with strands of light? light only travels at 3 million k a second, to cross the universe it would take a millennia, doesnt sound very connected to me, sounds worse than my mobile phone in scotland for reception, also time is relative to speed, there fore if a beem of light from us travels to another galaxy that is spinning 4 times as fast as ours, time would be slower in that galaxy than ours, so even if the light was to arrive instantaneously it would arrive out of synch with that galaxys time frame, i love seeing idiots with a science book making up stuff to sound cosmic and mystical, and then hiding behind techno babal they obviously dont understand and hope nobody else does either, you are a bundle of organic matter with a slightly higher iq than a monkey when put in large groups we can create great stuff as can ants but we are no higher spiritually than they and neither do we have souls, we are just clever enough to be scared of dying.


smidgin
on 3 July 2003, 10.16 am
oh dear,

quote from mamba
"Let me add to that. Everything in the Universe is made up of the same building blocks ... Protons, electrons and neautrons (and whatever lies beyond that) and as much as we like to believe, there are not really any "open spaces" (empty voids) between these ... so everything in the Universe "touches sides" on a sub-atomic level."

yes everything is made of these well done for reading your high school science book, however they are not all connected at all theres a big void called space, and its called space cos it has no atoms in it, it is a vacuum, you say your not ingnorant? yet you also say you know nothing of quantum physics, yet you belive you can combine mumbo jumbo bullshit with quantum physics cos they have similarities? i think you can only join two fields if you are an expert in both, quantum physics is essentially highly complex using maths with complex numbers and imaginary numbers, with completly new equations chucked in. nobody understands quantum physics apart from when they are working on it even then its a head fuck. as for light being energy, true yes it is but how does that help your argument in any way? light is in fact a particular form of energy in that it is a collection of photons moving at 3 mill k, if your gunna call it light then that is its nature, you cant just say "well its energy" and expect everyone to be confused and then say uhhhhh ok guess you must be right, its more techno bullshit, if you want new fancy bullshit words to use try saying that your energy is in the form of quarks as these are small enough and fast enough to be present in the past and the future, thatl confuse the morons your trying to fool!


The Green Mamba
on 3 July 2003, 12.16 pm
Hmmm ... there seems to be an echo here ... must be bouncing off your empty head.

FYI - Space is not really empty ... but if you had actually read Light, Matter and The Zero-point Field by Bernhard Haisch, you would have known this.

[Bernhard Haisch, staff physicist at the Lockheed Martin Solar & Astrophysics Laboratory in Palo Alto, California, is a scientific editor of The Astrophysical Journal and editor-in-chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.]

Extract from Light, Matter and The Zero-point Field - to save you the effort. (http://www.science-spirit.org/articles/articledet ail.cfm?article_id=126)

..."At every possible frequency there will always be a tiny bit of electromagnetic jiggling going on. And if you add up all these ceaseless fluctuations, what you get is a background sea of light whose total energy is enormous: the zero-point field. The "zero-point" refers to the fact that even though this energy is huge, it is the lowest possible energy state. All other energy is over and above the zero-point state. Take any volume of space and take away everything else — in other words, create a vacuum — and what you are left with is the zero-point field. We can imagine a true vacuum, devoid of everything, but the real-world quantum vacuum is permeated by the zero-point field with its ceaseless electromagnetic waves."

Anyways, I think we're jumping the gun here ... this article is only part one of five.


The Green Mamba
on 3 July 2003, 12.41 pm
Just in case you intent on launching another attack because I only quoted one source, here's another from Edgar Mitchell (http://fusionanomaly.net/edgarmitchell.html)

"There, they found only empty space, and labeled it the “zero-point” field of energy. It has been ascertained that all matter arose from this field the stuff of the “Big Bang.” Here, structure disappears into dynamic exchange of energy with the zero-point field, non-locality prevails, and space/time ceases to exist as all exchanges of energy are reversible, continuous, and unpredictable. The zero-point field is subatomic and also hypothesized as being macro (beyond universe). It can be found at the limits of speed (time becomes meaningless), heat (matter disappears), and cold (matter combines as coherent mass). It provides the quantum potential for all physical structure and the potential for awareness to exist, inextricably tied together."

and as for HIS credentials:

His academic background includes a Bachelor of Science in Industrial Management from Carnegie Mellon University, a Master of Science from the U.S. Navel Postgraduate School and a Doctor of Science in Aeronautics and Astronautics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In addition he has received honorary doctorates in engineering from New Mexico State University, the University of Akron and Carnegie Mellon.


Dragonfly
on 3 July 2003, 7.50 pm
Hahaha.... Smidgin offers a perfect example of the thought-less self-righteous ignorant skepticism that always appears in every system when something new is introduced. Four hundred years ago you would have been saying that we are the center of the universe, and a thousand years ago that the world was flat. (You remind me of Father McManus who was calling for a crusade against paganism and other occult, in the Scotsman a few days ago.)

By now you've been refuted beyond answer, and you'll probably not reply again (no loss). Nevertheless, I'll adress another comment of yours - "light only travels at 3 million k a second, to cross the universe it would take a millennia, doesnt sound very connected to me". You're talking old school physics here, laws that work well enough on the normal scale, but become invalid on the sub-atomic level.

In '82 physicist Alain Aspect and his team "discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart. Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing. The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held tenet that no communication can travel faster than the speed of light." This is tantamout to nothing less than breaking the time barrier.
What Aspect did was he had two photons of one atom going opposite ways, and he found that "somehow these photons affect one another's behavior at a distance, without exchanging any signals through space. Notice that: without exchanging any signals through space but instantly affecting each other. Instantaneously."
This goes head-on against Einstein's "locality" idea - that any influence travelling through space takes a finite time. This obviously means - following Occam's Razor - that the influence could not have travelled through space. Thus, it must belong to what we have to recognise as a transcendent reality.

This is science straight from the Scientific Journal, the most respected scientific media in the world.


smidgin
on 16 July 2003, 6.31 pm
sorry for the delay in the reply i've been on holiday, again you take quotes from thoretical science "which all quantum physics is" and try to use them to prove your lame mumbo jumbo bullshit, religious philosophys, yes things can travel faster than light "quarks" yes matter can attract other matter instantaneously, but how does any of this prove your point about religion? it doesnt there are no links between your bullshit ideas and this theretical area of science that you know nothing about, religion always fills the gap of ignorance, and it seems you have chosen to copy the millions of people before you who choose to explain the as of yet uncertain, with religion, its not your fault us humans need to believe in a greater power, and a purpose for us being here after all we humans are special right? we have souls right? sorry i think you will find we are just slightly inteligent ants with illusions of grandure, when you die you will feed the flowers and nothing more,

as for the "ZERO POINT FIELD" DUM DUM DUM!! its just the level of energy that scientists have decided is the lowest to be found, as there is always electro magnetic static hovering around in space, due they believe to be the residue from the big bang, this intensity of energy has been labeled the zero point field, its no more mystical than the zero point for temperature which is 0 kelvin "-274 degrees" its easy to fit religious crazy theorys into an unproven area of science after all you cant disprove it right? and sure you may be quoting some big prof names but remember these are just theorys and every prof has a different veiw point, also although they are clever and have an idea what they are talking about you dont.

for instance i believe our universe was created by the giant bob the builder, who used lego blocks made of unverse's each atom in the block was a solar system the sun being the nucleus, and our entire universe is just one lego block, hey its about as believable as your bullshit!!!


smidgin
on 16 July 2003, 6.55 pm
also one final point, have any of these scientists matched there findings with your beliefs in the occult? of course not they are scientists the beileve what can be proven or can be likely by reducing probability, they dont belive in mystical bullshit, cos thats what it is, grow up, and smell the roses, you have no soul religion is out of date, your a monkey a clever monkey but thats all we are, if it makes your frail mind sleep easier beliving in a higher plane then so be it, but for the inteligent mature humans out there with the balls to belive the less rosy reality, i think its obvious religion has had its day.


Dragonfly
on 17 July 2003, 5.42 am
Smidgy... firstly, we aren't talking about religion, we aren't talking about certainty, we aren't talking about dogma.
Our look on Religion is thus:
Every single culture everywhere on the face of the globe at every time has believed in a transcendent reality. Sub-atomic physics has effectively proven the possibility of a transcendent reality. Also (as all good philosophy and science is based on empiricism) a transcendent reality can be experienced - by anyone, at anytime - as is testified by any worthy mystic, 'oneironaut' or shaman. Now, neither of us believe in any religion. But, since a transcendent reality (that has been a belief of mankind throughout the ages (whether as an opiate or an insight)) fits in with the postulations of the Holographic Universe, it occured to us that this puts a new light on the dogma of religion, which can now be interpreted in a more sensical holistic manner.

Humans are not special, no we do not have a 'soul', no there is no metaphysical 'greater power'; humans are an animal in a corner of a revolving universe, a universe made of energy, a universe that is unpredictable and ordered, a universe that is not alone, nor permanent; humans are EXACTLY equal to every other mote of the universe.

Yes, The Zero Point Field can perhaps be summed up as an equivalent of absolute zero. The point is that it is the final death blow to Newtonian physics - there is no solid 'mass', there is no 'empty spaces'. And yes, it is only a theory - all science is only theory - all our thoughts are only theory, only inspiration, and that's the point.

Your final point is a very subjective rant for materialism, which is kinda falls at the seams when science does recognise the very real possibility of "higher planes" as you so picturesquely put it. "beliefs in the occult" and "mystical bullshit" depend on points of view - what you consider occult, belief and bullshit - we haven't expressed belief in the occult, merely acknowledged the obvious (and suggestive) correlation of assumed fiction or madness and assumed fact.


The Green Mamba
on 17 July 2003, 6.31 am
Last words

have any of these scientists matched there findings with your beliefs in the occult? of course not...

Actually they have - its called Quantum Animism


winklepuck
on 17 July 2003, 8.46 am
so basicaly your entire theory is....... as there is a theory that matter can attract matter instantly from great distances, this you believe proves that there are trancendent realities, lol by your use of the word trancendant, i take that to mean a heaven like plain or a transition to a energy or spiritual based form, all theses scientists are saying is that gravity is an instantaneus force, and it travels faster then light, and it will have an effect even from great distances, abeit in a weaker way, as for no empty spaces, space is empty, the zero point field is just electro magnetic static!!! it has no mass this energy its energy!! energy is not mass you dumbass!!! its called space for a reason!! just because you have light and gravity shooting around affecting other objects in space doesnt mean all matter is connected! how that makes a death nell for newtonian physics i dont know, (the universe has static in it therefore all newtonian science is bullshit hahaha dont make me laugh)

as for all science being theory i beg to differ you know thats not true, science by its very definition is the proof of facts not bullshit. so far your "point" has taken 3 pages of mumbling rambling which in not one sentance puts your theory into a proper perspective,

from my experiance anybody who cant explain there theory in 10 words of simple english is talking through his ass and using as many large words and sweeping statements as possible to prove his point.

i typed in your Quantum animism into a search engine and i got a couple of papers from socialogists, lol they get paid to think up shit with no basis in fact anyhow. there is no higher plain. sure maybe everthing in the universe has a equal and opposite reaction to somthing i do. but hey thats newtonian physics right lol. i leave you to your ramblings.


winklepuck
on 17 July 2003, 8.49 am
after reading far too many science books i came up with a theory, first i have to make a couple of points so you can see where i'm going,

time travels slower the faster you move, ie get 2 synchronised clocks send one off around the world on a plane and less time would have passed on the clock on the plane, when the clocks are reunited, this has been done and its true. in fact if you sent a space mission to a far off planet at half the speed of light, the trip would feel half as long to the people on the earth as to the people on the ship, ie 8 years to the people on the ship, on earth 4 years would pass,

then i thought well hang on the earth is spinning at 30 thousand miles an hour, surely that would affect our relative time? in comparison to a planet which spins at a slower rate? then i thought well then again we are spinning within a milky way galaxy which is spinning as well,

add this thought process to the idea that the universe is one massive explosion of immense proportions (big bang theory) maybe the universe from our point of view is epanding slowly (comparitively) because we are a piece of dust spinning in the vortex of an eplosion so violent that we move so fast that our relative time within this flash of an explosion seems to pass for millions and millions of years within a nano second in non spinning space.

ie if we were to get in a space craft and fly to a point out of a moving or spinning galaxy to a stationary point in the universe would we would see the universe explode and crumple again and again in milliseconds before our eyes? -


winklepuck
on 17 July 2003, 9.56 am
after reading far too many science books i came up with a theory, first i have to make a couple of points so you can see where i'm going,

time travels slower the faster you move, ie get 2 synchronised clocks send one off around the world on a plane and less time would have passed on the clock on the plane, when the clocks are reunited, this has been done and its true. in fact if you sent a space mission to a far off planet at half the speed of light, the trip would feel half as long to the people on the earth as to the people on the ship, ie 8 years to the people on the ship, on earth 4 years would pass,

then i thought well hang on the earth is spinning at 30 thousand miles an hour, surely that would affect our relative time? in comparison to a planet which spins at a slower rate? then i thought well then again we are spinning within a milky way galaxy which is spinning as well,

add this thought process to the idea that the universe is one massive explosion of immense proportions (big bang theory) maybe the universe from our point of view is epanding slowly (comparitively) because we are a piece of dust spinning in the vortex of an eplosion so violent that we move so fast that our relative time within this flash of an explosion seems to pass for millions and millions of years within a nano second in non spinning space.

ie if we were to get in a space craft and fly to a point out of a moving or spinning galaxy to a stationary point in the universe would we would see the universe explode and crumple again and again in milliseconds before our eyes? -


winklepuck
on 17 July 2003, 11.42 am
after reading far too many science books i came up with a theory, first i have to make a couple of points so you can see where i'm going,

time travels slower the faster you move, ie get 2 synchronised clocks send one off around the world on a plane and less time would have passed on the clock on the plane, when the clocks are reunited, this has been done and its true. in fact if you sent a space mission to a far off planet at half the speed of light, the trip would feel half as long to the people on the earth as to the people on the ship, ie 8 years to the people on the ship, on earth 4 years would pass,

then i thought well hang on the earth is spinning at 30 thousand miles an hour, surely that would affect our relative time? in comparison to a planet which spins at a slower rate? then i thought well then again we are spinning within a milky way galaxy which is spinning as well,

add this thought process to the idea that the universe is one massive explosion of immense proportions (big bang theory) maybe the universe from our point of view is epanding slowly (comparitively) because we are a piece of dust spinning in the vortex of an eplosion so violent that we move so fast that our relative time within this flash of an explosion seems to pass for millions and millions of years within a nano second in non spinning space.

ie if we were to get in a space craft and fly to a point out of a moving or spinning galaxy to a stationary point in the universe would we would see the universe explode and crumple again and again in milliseconds before our eyes? -


The Green Mamba
on 17 July 2003, 1.00 pm
so basicaly your entire theory is....... as there is a theory that matter can attract matter instantly from great distances, this you believe proves that there are trancendent realities

Bwahahahaha - no moron - there is scientific proof (since you think that all science isn't based on theory) that all matter on a sub-atomic level comprises of energy (actually that's not a big scientific leap) and that these sub-atomic particles communicate instantaneously (but not necessarily inteligently) with each other from one end of the universe to the other i.e. everything in the universe is connected.
That is the abosolute bare bones basics from which everything else we wrote originated ... and no we didn't pull any of this out of our own asses, we merely translated scientific research and documented accounts of metaphysical experiences into one single (albeit still in its infancy) model of the universe.


winklepuck
on 17 July 2003, 4.45 pm
after reading far too many science books i came up with a theory, first i have to make a couple of points so you can see where i'm going,

time travels slower the faster you move, ie get 2 synchronised clocks send one off around the world on a plane and less time would have passed on the clock on the plane, when the clocks are reunited, this has been done and its true. in fact if you sent a space mission to a far off planet at half the speed of light, the trip would feel half as long to the people on the earth as to the people on the ship, ie 8 years to the people on the ship, on earth 4 years would pass,

then i thought well hang on the earth is spinning at 30 thousand miles an hour, surely that would affect our relative time? in comparison to a planet which spins at a slower rate? then i thought well then again we are spinning within a milky way galaxy which is spinning as well,

add this thought process to the idea that the universe is one massive explosion of immense proportions (big bang theory) maybe the universe from our point of view is epanding slowly (comparitively) because we are a piece of dust spinning in the vortex of an eplosion so violent that we move so fast that our relative time within this flash of an explosion seems to pass for millions and millions of years within a nano second in non spinning space.

ie if we were to get in a space craft and fly to a point out of a moving or spinning galaxy to a stationary point in the universe would we would see the universe explode and crumple again and again in milliseconds before our eyes? -


winklepuck
on 17 July 2003, 4.56 pm
so you think as everthing in the universe in some way is connected to another this means that some guy in a meditaion pose and some dodgy drugs can contact a higher being, thats one huge jump,

(1) universe has equal and opposite reactions and matter attracts instantaneously at any distance.

(2) acoording to green mamba this means that humans have tuned into the universe and its connecting parts, and this is how religion origionated. (this is 5 pages of mamba bullshit simplified)

shame you couldnt have written it so simple but then hey without the fancy words, and 5 pages of padding your theory sounds a bit shit doesnt it


winklepuck
on 17 July 2003, 6.34 pm
so you think as everthing in the universe in some way is connected to another this means that some guy in a meditaion pose and some dodgy drugs can contact a higher being, thats one huge jump,

(1) universe has equal and opposite reactions and matter attracts instantaneously at any distance.

(2) acoording to green mamba this means that humans have tuned into the universe and its connecting parts, and this is how religion origionated. (this is 5 pages of mamba bullshit simplified)

shame you couldnt have written it so simple but then hey without the fancy words, and 5 pages of padding your theory sounds a bit shit doesnt it


winklepuck
on 17 July 2003, 6.38 pm
so you think as everthing in the universe in some way is connected to another this means that some guy in a meditaion pose and some dodgy drugs can contact a higher being, thats one huge jump,

(1) universe has equal and opposite reactions and matter attracts instantaneously at any distance.

(2) acoording to green mamba this means that humans have tuned into the universe and its connecting parts, and this is how religion origionated. (this is 5 pages of mamba bullshit simplified)

shame you couldnt have written it so simple but then hey without the fancy words, and 5 pages of padding your theory sounds a bit shit doesnt it


Dragonfly
on 18 July 2003, 5.19 am
This is current scientific reasoning: If particles communicate instantaneously at any distance, then that breaks the laws of physics stating that nothing can go faster than the speed of light; therefore, it couldn't happen, in our reality. This seems a bit "out there", but don't forget that physics has contemplated multiple realities for decades - its nothing new: whats new is that now the notion has to be regarded by less theoretic scientists as well. Read the source document on Zero Point Theory again, if you've read it at all.

You seem to have no concept of the principles and views of Newtonian physics, nor the Holographic theory, nor indeed the definition of the word "connected". Blah. Also, I liked your old name better, winkly.

Your theory is ... nothing new - time and space is interconnected is one of the main tenets of Bose-Einstein physics... And the hypothesised "still-point of space" ... sounds vaguely like the Holographic theory if you ask me - everything we've been saying..

Smidgy - what's your view on distant healing, through prayer or by a shaman, for instance?


The Green Mamba
on 18 July 2003, 6.39 am
You know winky ... I really can't be bothered any further with someone who is so wrapped up in his own narrow-minded beliefs that he cant see anything past his forehead unless it hits him in the face.
You are the perfect example of The Man with the Never-changing Smile ... ignorance is bliss - have fun.


winklepuck
on 20 July 2003, 7.33 pm
lol seems green mamba cant protect his argument now that it is a form of 3 lines of simplified text, as for dragon fly thinking my relative time theory is the same as his and mambas, lol have you actually read the theory and do you know your own ? or is your theory so much drivvle that changes to suit an argument constantly that even you dont know what it is? as for ignorance being bliss sorry but it is you who are ignorant, you choose to belive in heaven and astral plains all because you refuse to see the non rosy reality that we are a small insignificant planet with insignificant people on it with brief life spans, and when you die you dont go to heaven you rot, sorry if you cant deal with that,

as for spiritual healing, its one area you can test to see if there is any basis for fact, and nobody has ever been able to heal somone on demand, in a controlled environment, so it doesnt exist, and before you argue your point, the test is to stick an ill person with the healer and the healer has to heal the person, cut and shut to the point no quibble, and you know what nobody has ever been able to, strange i would have thought the one million pound reward would have been an insentive.


The Green Mamba
on 20 July 2003, 7.55 pm
Like I said, give it a rest, you'e grabbing at straws. Your summary of my five page articles wasn't even within a mile of what we discussed, because you only see what you want to see and not what we're actually saying.


winklepuck
on 20 July 2003, 7.58 pm
p.s as for particles attracting instantaneously, meaning that newtonian physics is all bull, thats one theory einsteins even he realised it wasnt true in all cases, light can travel faster, and it has been proven (on edges of black holes it is bent) as for objects attracing at above the speed of light, that doesnt prove alternate realities!! it proves matter attracts on a fundemental level without waves or radiation, same as a gravity, there are no waves with gravity there is nothing emited or recieved by the matter they just attract, as there are no waves there is nothing moving faster than light,


winklepuck
on 20 July 2003, 9.04 pm
in that case as my summary was inacurate i'd like your simplified explanaition, using plain english and less than 2 lines, unless you can only waffle and hope the reader becomes so confused by your sweping statements and contradicting theorys, if you cant say your basic theory in 2 lines you have no clear idea of what you are trying to say, or what you mean, but i think we all know thats the truth anyhow.


winklepuck
on 20 July 2003, 9.16 pm
in that case as my summary was inacurate i'd like your simplified explanaition, using plain english and less than 2 lines, unless you can only waffle and hope the reader becomes so confused by your sweping statements and contradicting theorys, if you cant say your basic theory in 2 lines you have no clear idea of what you are trying to say, or what you mean, but i think we all know thats the truth anyhow.


The Green Mamba
on 21 July 2003, 7.34 am
I moved this pointless discussion to my conclusion on the front page - see comments.


Philip Osypher
on 6 May 2004, 12.59 am
The Green Mamba would do well to become a history teacher, carry through Bob Marleys wishes and tell the children the truth! You are on to something and your insights would make a sober and reasonable theologian prick his ears.
Having had a passion and / or feeling for mystical/occult/counter culture literature for half a decade now, I believe I am qualified to say the following with a degree of certainty, (granted too that I accquired a 'degree' in philosphy from a fine Welsh university.)
Is it not the case that before a human/organic being operates his linguistic and rationalisation powers that there is no case at all, there is only that which is undescribed and consequently unknown - What Meister Eckhart called 'Isness'. After all a 'case' as we understand it is the product of our own powers of invention to begin with. So when there is nothing said, postulated, described, painted, pictured there is nothing but that which is percieved through the body. Such as what we see with our eyes, hear with our ears and so on... pure unadulterated perception. The concomitant or partner to there being no case(s) is a state of silence. This is a state cherished by the mystical adept or 'man of knowledge', in which there is alleged to be the potential to use dormant aspects of ourselves.
So is not silence the key?Abating reason, which insatlled or not only seems to fog up what could otherwise be a clear.
all the best!


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They were done for an exhibition a couple of years ago . They asked for something to so with the summer. They are mixed media and oil paint on metal advertising boards - for ice cream.


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Props to Green Mamba for bringing the weirdness

Hmph

80s candy bars were pretty good

only because i traded it for a candy bar in the 80's.

lol we all know you don't have a soul ghoti

my soul for some carbs...

But of course!

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