The Grinding Shed: Sucicide - The Grinding Shed

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Sucicide

#1 User is offline   Uial Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 01:14 AM

I know that everyone talks about this one time or another. But it never really hits you until a close or even a nor so close friend takes his or her own life.
During 4th hour today(Friday), I was in the middle of my physics test, and our teacher stopped us. He was crying. A counselor was in the room and she told us that a boy had died. I knew him from grade school but it wasn't until she said that he had committed sucicide this morning that it really hit me. I hadn't really talked to him since 8th grade. i'm now in 11th. But I was pretty close to him then.
What was really amazing was that everyone who had gone to school with him til 8th grade all seemed to converged together in Student Services. It was like a telepathic message or something. The school was letting people leave school if our parents said it was alright. A lot of us who knew him went to another friend's house and talked and hugged and cried and prayed which really helps.
I just want everyone to knew that there is other ways to deal with things than taking your life. And even though someone doesn't look like they would do something like this because on the outside they're happy and always having a good time, it doesn't mean that they don't have their own problems that they want to kept to themselves. I think everyone should take a moment next time they see their friends (or even someone you don't really like that much) to tell them that they mean a lot to you and that you'll be there for them if they need you.

Sorry that ended up being so long. I also apologize for anything spelling errors and don't have the heart to reread this.
"I do not seek to understand in order that I may believe, but I believe in order to understand, for I also know that if I did not have faith, I would not be able to understand anything."
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#2 User is offline   The_Roach Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 01:40 AM

I disagree. There is not always a way out. Sometimes death is the only relief, which is why we need Euthanasia in our hostpitals. As for taking your own life because you can't "deal" or whatever, I say go for it. If you can't hack it, we don't need you. Most of all, though, I want you to fail miserably at it so that you can discover that what should be the simplest of accomplishments is beyond even your pathetic reach.

People who want to kill themselves make me sick. Better to have them removed from society so that they don't stand in your way.
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#3 User is offline   -jeremy- Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 09:41 AM


Very sorry to hear of your friend. I knew a girl who swallowed all of her depression medication at a party when she saw her ex with a new girl. Even though the act was rash and stupid it is tragic for someone to lose their life at such an early age. Especially considering that she mixed those pills with alcohol and went through several painful convulsions before someone was wise enough to call an ambulance, (too little too late). She was in a coma for four days and the swelling of the brain never went down it only got worse, meaning IF she had ever came out of the coma she wouldn't have been anything more than a vegetable. Her parents had to tell the doctors to remove life support. I can't even imagine what that'd be like.

Depression is a disease, and that disease killed our friends. While I do agree with what Roach said to an extent, I wouldn't be so heartless about the fact being that you're dealing with the loss TODAY. Death is something we all deal with eventually. My heart goes out to you, your friends and especially to his family.

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#4 User is offline   Villager Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 12:21 PM

Oddly enough I'm inclined to agree with Roach, to an extent. I would, however, exclude children from this (what age/level of maturity you would apply is another matter). While those of us who are old enough to realise the full reasoning of the matter - and consequently must take complete responsibility for our behaviour - children as in other areas cannot be accused of posessing the necessary judgement with which we can hold them responsible.

An uncle of mine killed himself this year. I wasn't upset, really, he was a cheerless man and clearly miserable with his existence. What, then, is there to be sad about at his passing? I miss him not, and he won't be missing us.
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#5 User is offline   Villager Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 01:16 PM

Okay, let me clarify: the man never exhibited any sings of affection, he avoided contact with us and was only ever awkwardly hostile towards myself, and I'm fairly sure I'm not alone. His adult life was characterised by a desire to shut himself away from other people. If he wanted to get away from life so badly then that's sad, but I'll not grieve that he (at the second attempt) got his wish to die.


Quite how that is immature (heartless maybe, but it's not like we had a relationship) I don't know. Perhaps you could expand upon your accusation?
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#6 User is offline   Mr_Fred_Smith Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 02:44 PM

I'm not quite sure I follow you, Gladiator: are you suggesting that Vill feign sorrow at the death of a man who expressed nothing but ill-will towards him?

On the broader point, I regard suicide as just the next stage on from self-harm: if the people doing it were really rational, fine, but let's not delude ourselves that the majority of people who commit suicide are anything other than temporarily insane. And since most of us will experience mental illness (probably depression) at some point in our lives, I don't think we can really afford to be so dismissive of the phenomenon.
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#7 User is offline   Mr_Fred_Smith Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 03:14 PM

Maybe, Glad, but his case doesn't sound like temporary insanity to me - it sounds like his entire personality was misanthropic and aversionary. I spend a good part of my time at work signing 2052 forms, which basically log the behaviour of inmates on suicide watch. It tends to be overt; it escalates after events like the loss of access to one's children, and the patterns change radically, from crying to threats to silence. I'll leave Vill to provide further details, but this man's case sounds like a question of rational unhappiness rather than chemical depression.
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#8 User is offline   The_Roach Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 04:22 PM

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Although I do remember reading a very old thread here where one of your friends that attempted suicide and my recollection is that you were possible not angered that he had decided to perform this act but that he hadn't discussed it with you first.


I don't recall being angered that he hadn't discussed it, but that he hadn't considered the consequences. Suicide is a selfish act perpetrated by selfish people, and that's what angers me.

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I also do not remember getting the impression that you thought the person "pathetic" because he had failed.


Oh, I do think he's pathetic. The reasoning isn't quite the same, though. In this circumstance it's disappointing because the guy didn't even try. He knew full well that he wasn't going to die that day. All he did was show off.

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I also lost a close colleague who gave the brave impression of fun, outgoing and happy, he gassed himself in a car. I reflect back often and realize I was missing the point, and I and other friends must take some of the blame/responsibility. I mean is that not what a friend is all about?


No, you can't take responsibility for that. Not only is it totally your own decision to kill yourself, you also get to pick your own crappy friends. He didn't want someone to save him. If he had, he'd have found someone to do it.
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#9 User is offline   Uial Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 06:48 PM

well i'm so glad someone you think that people who commit suicide are just a piece of crap! honestly, you make me sick. How would you feel if a close friend died and you had no idea why?? I went to school with this guy since kindergarten and we used to play soccer and four square at recess all the time.
but those of you sho really care about such things, thanks. it's nice to know that at least someone cares. *glares at Roach*
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#10 User is offline   Villager Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 07:24 PM

I could not say whether it was 'rational' depression or otherwise, but it was certainly a long-lived one. I believe I do understand why he killed himself Glad, and its that very reason which makes his death no sadder than his life. Solitude was his sanctuary in life, but eventually that too became intolerable. I don't believe that I can really be held responsible in the slightest for his misery, though perhaps the very few people who really knew him might have 'done' more.

When I found out that he had died I was sad that his life had come to that; I was sadder that my Grandmother had to cope with the loss of her husband and son in short succession. But the fact that I never had a real relationship with him (let alone a warm one) prevents me from feeling his loss; I know he suffered, and I know death was a release from that suffering. To reiterate, his life was far sadder than his death. He wanted it, and was determined to take it. He refused offers of help, and made no mistake in his second attempt.

He no longer suffers; am I to mourn such a thing?
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#11 User is offline   Villager Icon

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 08:28 PM

I took the implication of responsibility from the following statement.

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you neither took the time to find out what his "awkwards" was


Perhaps my original statement was so brief as to imply a lack of caring. it was intended to be concise, not dismissive.

I could only mourn the man in the same way i could mourn the death of somebody I saw on television; there is no meaningful connection. We had a cold relationship in life, it would be rather disingenuous for me to mourn his passing as though we were close.
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#12 User is offline   clank-o-tron Icon

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 04:56 AM

I agree with roach's first point. The kind of people that off themselves are the people who probably weren't going to contribute much to society.

Sure it's a heartless response. But can you logically refute anything from roach's initial post, or can you simply say it's mean?
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#13 User is offline   The_Roach Icon

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 04:00 AM

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How would you feel if a close friend died and you had no idea why?


If a close friend of mine died and I didn't know the reason, I think I'd be questioning the value of that friendship more than the circumstances that led to their death. If I had no idea as to what could have possibly been the issue, then it's fair to say that they weren't really that close to me at all.
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#14 User is offline   Sickan Icon

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 08:19 PM

Hmm...
As som people I have expirenced that someone close to me killing themselves. And with everything else living we love that goes away forever they are missed.
My friend who decieded to kill himself was so deep in his depression and sadness that I have no memory of him not bearing that shadow. He died and got away, and after the immidiate pain of loss I kind of came to trems with his descision.
There is no reason for adult people to go on if they really can't see any reason to do so... and no one should continue because someone close to them would be in pain after their departure... (I know that fathers/mothers have some special commitment, hence children)...

Suicide is a terrible way to end it all, but sometimes it is the only way to end it.

Peace.
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#15 User is offline   Uial Icon

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Posted 19 November 2003 - 12:15 AM

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If I had no idea as to what could have possibly been the issue, then it's fair to say that they weren't really that close to me at all.


The only problem with that, Roach, is that not even he's closest friends knew why. He didn't leave a note or anything. Some of us were talking one night after going over to his house and talking to his parents. We decided that it was totally emotion because of that reason and we believe that if he had thought about it for awhile he would have realized how many people he would effect by this. My mom said that if he was looking down on us right now he's heart would be breaking. He was always smiling and he's laugh was contragious. And as one of his friends put it "he could lightening up a room just by walking in it."
Everyone who knows him said that even looking back they don't see anything that they should have noticed that should have warned them.
The funeral was today. the vistation was last night. you know when you impart a community when 800 people come to your visitation and 400 to your funeral.

Good bye and Rest in Peace, Travis.
"I do not seek to understand in order that I may believe, but I believe in order to understand, for I also know that if I did not have faith, I would not be able to understand anything."
~Anselm (1033-1109) Archbishop of Canterbury.
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