The Grinding Shed: Che And Osama - Heroes ? - The Grinding Shed

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Che And Osama - Heroes ?

#1 User is offline   baggy_dog Icon

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Posted 23 June 2004 - 06:31 PM

Posted Image

<flame on>

Both were/are from upper middles class families.

Both fought away from home.

Both affected a style of dress that was not their own.

Straggly beards plus unwashed almost grungy look.

One is a beloved youth figure/hero of most of the world left.

...the other one is a beloved youth figure/hero for many of a dispossessed and unhappy muslim generation.

The western press can say what it wants but these two are moving together in the eyes of many people .... now why is ?

ciao
db


</flame on>
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#2 Guest_RAW_*

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Posted 23 June 2004 - 08:08 PM

I have said this before and I will say it again; Bin laden created the biggest media virus we have ever seen to date on that 11th day of September. A perfect example of how to use global media, as a weapon of mass destruction. Iconic value really. I mean both of these two people's images are more than the man them self. The fact Laden may not even be alive for all we know doesn’t matter. His image will forever live. I mean Che was immortalized by a certain image of him, I’d hazard a guess more people know the name Che because of that image rather than any of the things he actually did.

But that is just the product of pop*. What isn't.




* Pop - Popular Culture Movements. Eg. Pop Art.
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#3 User is offline   The_Roach Icon

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 06:31 AM

I wouldn't be so sure, Gladiator. Odds are that Bin Laden would be thrilled with the ideals set forth by Che Guevara, if for no other reason than they were in direct opposition to the United States.

Of course, I hope desperately that you're kidding about having never heard of him. It's so unlike you to admit when you don't know something that I can't help but think this is all a cruel prank.

The question I have is do you think that we'll discover in another thirty years or so that Bin Laden was informally executed and there will suddenly be a pro-Laden backlash?

This post has been edited by The_Roach: 24 June 2004 - 06:36 AM

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#4 User is offline   baggy_dog Icon

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 07:40 AM

........and this is the part that people have not yet taken on board ...as much as he is a despised and hated figure in the west, he is bordered on almost a BLOODY ROCK STAR status for many* young muslims.

Somebody, is using his image to mean one thing to one group of people and a completely different and opposite meaning to another group.

When was the last time that this kind of thing happened ?

ciao
db

*obviously not all but a journalist friend just back from the Middle East confirms this is the view now held by many.
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#5 User is offline   baggy_dog Icon

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 02:24 PM

<looks down at his newspaper and keeps on walking>








<once round the corner, legs it as fast as he can >

ciao
db
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#6 User is offline   Mr_Fred_Smith Icon

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 02:27 PM

I don't think Osama bin Laden would have any time at all for a secular communist like Che Guevara, especially since he spent about a decade in Afghanistan taking American coin to help destroy the rest of his comrades.

I can understand the appeal of Che - it's Saint-Just/Baader-Meinhof purity (youth, glamour, vigour, moral purity, no compromises, direct action, batter down everyone who disagrees with you), and the fact that he was an Argentinian aristocrat with Peronist sympathies just emphasizes what he walked away from. He also has the redeeming feature of being a dupe in someone else's Cold War game, whereas Osama's appeal is subtler; he doesn't dirty his hands any more, and his goals are more preset - I don't follow the Middle Eastern media, but I imagine he has more of an Uncle Ho-type following: "by burning fascist fingers you stand out like a sore thumb". Che also used the media in a very touchy-feely/naif Western way, giving interviews and suchlike, whereas Osama has always been deliberately remote, even before 9/11 - they appeal from opposite ends of the spectrum.

Personally this glamour thing doesn't quite work for me: I don't have a lot of time for orthodox Marxist-Leninism as a political theory, but I always preferred middle-aged Lenin over youngish glamour-boy Trotsky, simply because he has fewer angles and more certainty. I've always loved the robotic, ruthless, all-pervasive, one-dimensional cynicism of Lenin's speeches and journalism, it just hits the spot every time.
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#7 User is offline   Mr_Fred_Smith Icon

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Posted 24 June 2004 - 08:41 PM

I'm going to name my kid Petunia if it's a boy and Derek Schwarzenegger if it's a girl. I'm not going to name it if it isn't one or the other, that would be too complicated.
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#8 User is offline   Mr_Fred_Smith Icon

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 07:58 AM

No, in that case I would rename the house "Chez Cool" and invite all my friend [sic] round for canapes.
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#9 User is offline   Anton Icon

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    That is what we call personal development.

Posted 25 June 2004 - 10:23 AM

I always wanted a hermaphrodite for Christmas
What was here before made me cringe and cry.
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#10 User is offline   Anton Icon

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    That is what we call personal development.

Posted 25 June 2004 - 11:34 PM

I'm fully aware that after the intial fun I'll neglect it, stop feeding it and eventually it will run off and get run over by a bus. It doesn't make me want one any less though.
What was here before made me cringe and cry.
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#11 User is offline   jackwright Icon

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 04:14 AM

Anton, on Jun 25 2004, 04:20 PM, said:

I'm fully aware that after the intial fun I'll neglect it, stop feeding it and eventually it will run off and get run over by a bus. It doesn't make me want one any less though.

Well, I was gonna give you mine, but it just got squished by a HumVee
"Imperous, choleric, irascible, extreme in everything, with a dissolute imagination the likes of which have never been seen, atheistic to the point of fanaticism, there you have me in a nutshell, and kill me again or take me as I am, for I will never change."
(From the Marquis de Sades' Last Will and Testament)
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#12 User is offline   Anton Icon

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    That is what we call personal development.

Posted 26 June 2004 - 10:27 AM

Hermaphrodites never seem to catch a lucky break.
What was here before made me cringe and cry.
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#13 User is offline   jackwright Icon

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 10:35 AM

Right-iee-oh. The good news is that I found the corpse before the desert heat spoiled it too bad and got to have some deep fried clam strips for dinner.
"Imperous, choleric, irascible, extreme in everything, with a dissolute imagination the likes of which have never been seen, atheistic to the point of fanaticism, there you have me in a nutshell, and kill me again or take me as I am, for I will never change."
(From the Marquis de Sades' Last Will and Testament)
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