The Grinding Shed: Stolen Honor - The Grinding Shed

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Stolen Honor

#31 User is offline   jackwright Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 07:17 PM

Alexander, on Oct 25 2004, 11:57 AM, said:

Word Jake, preach on my brother. Excellent post.

Here, here.

~ Jackwright tips the tankard of neon Jesus and swills ~

BELCH !!
"Imperous, choleric, irascible, extreme in everything, with a dissolute imagination the likes of which have never been seen, atheistic to the point of fanaticism, there you have me in a nutshell, and kill me again or take me as I am, for I will never change."
(From the Marquis de Sades' Last Will and Testament)
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#32 User is offline   EvilPopTart Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 07:52 PM

A MOTHER FUCKING MEN JakeD

I tried to be a bit more intellectual about it, but in times like these, sometimes a nice verbal dick slap to the face does the trick. I'm sure the mushroom print on the side of their faces is going to sting for a bit.....
Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism - Thomas Jefferson
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#33 User is offline   Princess Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 07:58 PM

My first intention on putting this link out here was to actually discuss the documentary, maybe even it's credibility.

The fact is the Former POW's that speak out in this documentary have extreme credibility. They are just comming out with the truth. They are all decorated with awards, some of the same awards that Kerry, himself holds. What holds more true for this documentary than the movie that Mr. Moore produced, is that Stolen Honor is based on fact. These are first person accounts of former POW's. Their own testimony, not someone else's interpretation.

Kenneth W. Cordier-- who spent 6 years, 3 months and 1 day as a POW. His awards include: Two Silver Stars, Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star, Purple Heart.

George E. "Bud" Day-- spent 5 years, 7 months, 13 days as a POW. His awards include: Medal of Honor, Air Force Cross, Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross.

There were 15 more former POW's that spoke, just as decorated with Medals and Honors, and some spent years more as POW's.

I would say these gentlemen are impeccable sources.
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#34 User is offline   jackwright Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:01 PM

Quote

I would say these gentlemen are impeccable sources


Would you care to explain why ?
"Imperous, choleric, irascible, extreme in everything, with a dissolute imagination the likes of which have never been seen, atheistic to the point of fanaticism, there you have me in a nutshell, and kill me again or take me as I am, for I will never change."
(From the Marquis de Sades' Last Will and Testament)
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#35 User is offline   Princess Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:28 PM

jackwright, on Oct 25 2004, 08:47 PM, said:

Would you care to explain why ?

Because they are reccounting personal experiences.
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#36 User is offline   jackwright Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:30 PM

Princess, on Oct 25 2004, 01:14 PM, said:

Because they are reccounting personal experiences.

Automaticaly in a truthful manner ?
"Imperous, choleric, irascible, extreme in everything, with a dissolute imagination the likes of which have never been seen, atheistic to the point of fanaticism, there you have me in a nutshell, and kill me again or take me as I am, for I will never change."
(From the Marquis de Sades' Last Will and Testament)
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#37 User is offline   EvilPopTart Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:30 PM

Princess, on Oct 25 2004, 04:44 PM, said:

My first intention on putting this link out here was to actually discuss the documentary, maybe even it's credibility.

The fact is the Former POW's that speak out in this documentary have extreme credibility. They are just comming out with the truth. They are all decorated with awards, some of the same awards that Kerry, himself holds.  What holds more true for this documentary than the movie that Mr. Moore produced, is that Stolen Honor is based on fact. These are first person accounts of former POW's.  Their own testimony, not someone else's interpretation.

I would say these gentlemen are impeccable sources.

ARE YOU RETARDED??????!!!!!?????


Of course its someone elses interpretation numbnuts, its a slanted documentry.

HAVE YOU FUCKING READ A SINGLE THING PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING???

If it was something genuine, you think Sinclair wouldn't have lost 20 percent of its stock value for just threatening to show it.

If it was a credibale source, then the director/commentator wouldnt have been SUCESSFULLY sued for lying about shit in the past

You are saying that my father is a liar by agreeing with this shit. And I have never know my dad to lie. He's told me stories of shelling of villages, raping of women, killing of school children

Like Smith said, ITS COMMON FUCKING SENSE THESE THINGS HAPPENED

Jesus I have never met someone so retarded in my life.

Do you believe everything you read?
Do you believe everything you see?
Can you even assimilate information like a normal human being?

I will repeat myself again for you people in the cheap seats:

Until you can come up with something other then a undereducated opinion for THE LOVE OF GOD!!! STFU

Go back actually READ peoples posts, learn about BIAS in the media, if thats possible for you.

I think its unpatroitic to come up with opinions on this country or its potential/current leaders without some basis in reality. Let alone vote on them.

So until you can look in the mirror and say I(I as in YOU, in case you can't understand my meaning) know what I'm talking about, again refer again to the previous statement of STFU

If all you can cite is a shame of a documentry, again please refer to the STFU

If all you can say is I'm right and your wrong, again please refer to the STFU

I'll say it again for the last time:

If you want to debate FACTS I am all ears. My shit is armed and ready, as is atman, unforgiven, cris, Jake, Amarote and Jackwright.

We all may not agree on things, but at least we semi know whats going on and what we are saying when we say it.

This post has been edited by EvilPopTart: 25 October 2004 - 08:33 PM

Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism - Thomas Jefferson
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#38 User is offline   Rouge Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:40 PM

EvilPopTart, on Oct 25 2004, 09:16 PM, said:

You are saying that my father is a liar by agreeing with this shit.

Obviously your father is the retard since he didn't teach his son anything about common decency.
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#39 User is offline   EvilPopTart Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:48 PM

Rouge, on Oct 25 2004, 05:26 PM, said:

Obviously your father is the retard since he didn't teach his son anything about common decency.

if your implying my being pissed off, well, maybe read some previous posts.

She has been told she has a baseless arguement but insists on keeping it going.

Wait....wait a second....wtf am I saying?

I would pay attention to whatever point your trying to make, but wait...

I am too busy NOT caring
Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism - Thomas Jefferson
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#40 User is offline   Princess Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:59 PM

EvilPopTart, on Oct 25 2004, 09:16 PM, said:

ARE YOU RETARDED??????!!!!!?????


Of course its someone elses interpretation numbnuts, its a slanted documentry.

HAVE YOU FUCKING READ A SINGLE THING PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING???

If it was something genuine, you think Sinclair wouldn't have lost 20 percent of its stock value for just threatening to show it.

If it was a credibale source, then the director/commentator wouldnt have been SUCESSFULLY sued for lying about shit in the past

You are saying that my father is a liar by agreeing with this shit. And I have never know my dad to lie. He's told me stories of shelling of villages, raping of women, killing of school children

Like Smith said, ITS COMMON FUCKING SENSE THESE THINGS HAPPENED

Jesus I have never met someone so retarded in my life.

Do you believe everything you read?
Do you believe everything you see?
Can you even assimilate information like a normal human being?

I will repeat myself again for you people in the cheap seats:

Until you can come up with something other then a undereducated opinion for THE LOVE OF GOD!!! STFU

Go back actually READ peoples posts, learn about BIAS in the media, if thats possible for you.

I think its unpatroitic to come up with opinions on this country or its potential/current leaders without some basis in reality. Let alone vote on them.

So until you can look in the mirror and say I(I as in YOU, in case you can't understand my meaning) know what I'm talking about, again refer again to the previous statement of STFU

If all you can cite is a shame of a documentry, again please refer to the STFU

If all you can say is I'm right and your wrong, again please refer to the STFU

I'll say it again for the last time:

If you want to debate FACTS I am all ears. My shit is armed and ready, as is atman, unforgiven, cris, Jake, Amarote and Jackwright.

We all may not agree on things, but at least we semi know whats going on and what we are saying when we say it.

apparently you need to actually read what I wrote and that was that my first intention was to discuss the documentary, perhaps the very credibility of it, not to debate who should be president.


I am well aware of the Liberal Media Bias.

Are you aware that the reason the stock dropped is because, "Alan Hevesi, a Democrat, is the sole trustee for the New York State Common Retirement Fund, which owns about 250,000 shares of Sinclair stock. In a letter to Sinclair executives, Hevesi criticized the negative publicity generated by the controversy and the subsequent impact on the company’s stock. "

A democrat threatened that it would, because of the negative publicity, not because of the credibility...

The only thing about sueing that I know of is that Sinclair was being sued for insider trading, and damages from loss of revenues and boycotts that would come as a result of airing the film... having nothing to do with the credibility of this documentary.
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#41 User is offline   Mr_Fred_Smith Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:04 PM

I still don't understand what all the fuss about this documentary is, to be honest. The allegation is that John Kerry testified that US soldiers committed atrocities in Vietnam in the 70s; Kerry's camp accepts the allegation unreservedly, pointing out that this happens to be true. A few Colonel Blimps bluster a bit about how horrified they were to hear his testimony thirty years ago. How you construct a 42-minute documentary out of this is beyond me.

This post has been edited by Mr_Fred_Smith: 25 October 2004 - 09:05 PM

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#42 User is offline   Princess Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:07 PM

atman, on Oct 25 2004, 09:40 PM, said:

did you ever stop to consider that the people in the documentary are saying things because they're still offended at some of the things john kerry said and did as a spokesman for VVAW?? that maybe they're not being objective because they're still carrying around a grudge??

and i'd hardly call opinion, the way someone else views kerry's actions, as "fact"

atman, good arguement: opinion of how someone else see's John Kerry's actions are just that, an opinion. Agreed.

but the testimony of the POW's are from their own experiences.

Have you watched the documentary? Did you listen to the POW's recount what happened to them and why? Did you see how John Kerry's actions affected them as POW's?
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#43 User is offline   Princess Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:10 PM

jackwright, on Oct 25 2004, 09:16 PM, said:

Automaticaly in a truthful manner ?

Excellent point. I suppose that is for the individual to decide. How credible are these men? How many of them are there? What are their adgendas, or why are they comming forward now, after so long? Or have they always been there, just that now someone is actually listening?
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#44 User is offline   EvilPopTart Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:18 PM

Ok its obvious no communication can be made with you at this point


Liberal media bias...HELLO!!!! FOX NEWS???!!!!??? CNN????

Both Republican strongholds, again COMMON knowledge.

As for the sueing, I am refering to the CREATOR, not Sinclair, again please learn to read.

Sinclair didnt make shit, but, Mr sherwood sure did.

Here is a nice snipit from 1984 about Carlton Sherwood from the Washington post on Nov 9, 1984

Not that you'll read it or anything. :P

Quote

Carlton Sherwood

The person who knows for sure that the memorial wasn't worth the price he paid is Carlton Sherwood, the former WDVM investigative reporter who broadcast a series a year ago that raised questions about why $9 million was raised by the fund but only, he said, $2.6 million spent for actual construction. Sherwood resigned from the station, he says, after a loud shouting match in the newsroom, in which he says he called news director Dave Pearce "gutless," "spineless" and a "pernicious bedwetter." Sherwood now works for The Washington Times.

"The way in which I resigned at WDVM ruined me in town with other news directors," says Sherwood, an intense, aggressive reporter who had won a Pulitzer Prize and a Peabody Award for previous investigative work. "I was not likely to land a job here with other television stations."

On Wednesday night, WDVM aired an unusual apology for the series and on Monday donated $50,000 toward the maintenance of the memorial. Pearce confirmed that the fund had threatened to sue before the settlement.

"I do not apologize," Sherwood said by phone. "I do not retract anything that was aired. I stand by the story. My reports were approved in advance by Channel 9 and its attorneys and were based almost entirely on the [fund's] own financial reports. After discussions with representatives from the station, I was told that this [the apology and donation] was a business decision."

Fund members claim that Sherwood was put up to the story by the opponents of the memorial, particularly H. Ross Perot, the conservative, hard-driving Texas billionaire who lost a close friend in Vietnam and who is still angry that "we sent these men on the battlefield but did not go with them in spirit." Sherwood says it's not true about Perot. "He didn't want to talk to me, he really didn't," he says. "I had to drag him kicking and screaming. Nobody came to me and said, 'Do this story.' "

A GAO report eventually cleared the fund of any wrongdoing, but Sherwood scoffs at it. "From everything I saw," he says, "they took a nonprofit, charitable agency and were running it like a government agency. If it were the government, you'd expect them to spend 80 cents for a 20-cent widget. Which may explain why the GAO was more tolerant, being tolerant to large expenditures for very little results."

What is interesting, and often overlooked, is that Sherwood is a veteran himself. He finds the memorial "depressing," but says he doesn't feel as emotional about it as the other fund members do.

"There were 100 wars in Vietnam," he says. "The war I fought was totally different than theirs. I was on the DMZ. We had no booby traps, we didn't have to worry about shooting women and children and being court-martialed if we did. We were fighting a trench war. I didn't have time to think. We were losing 350 people -- people killed -- a week. When you know so many on the wall, it sort of loses its impact.

"I'm sure shrinks would say, 'It's not healthy, you should face up to it, you ought to address these feelings.' Well, I'm not holding anything back, I don't think."

A theory: Maybe he got angry and wanted to expose what he saw as mismanagement in the fund because of his real anger toward the war.

"That's an interesting theory," he says, "but the reason I went after the story is that it seemed to me that it was the kind of story I have done in the past. Now, maybe subliminally, maybe there is something in the back of my mind. I had, and have, no position on the memorial. Maybe that is subconscious. Maybe I force myself not to be moved by it. Maybe if you go down the road seven or 10 years, it'll be different. I used to say that Veterans Day never meant anything to me, but now, every time it comes around, I fear that I'm going to get a wrenching feeling in my stomach. It's the anniversary of 'The Story.' "

Jack Wheeler

The fund member most antagonized by 'The Story' was Jack Wheeler, a smart, hard-working lawyer who had gone to West Point, Yale Law School and Harvard Business School. Once he thought about becoming an Episcopal priest, but dropped the idea after a year. Now he's a special counsel to the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission.

It was Wheeler who noticed the story about Scruggs only collecting $144.50, and it was Wheeler, a man who had never been quite sure what he wanted from life, who seized on the idea and got his old West Point network on the phone. Later, the memorial opponents would make sure that everyone knew that Wheeler, a logistics officer, had never seen combat, and later, Sherwood would report that Wheeler "became the subject of disciplinary action for misappropriation of government property" and that he was "cited for conduct totally unbecoming an officer." (Wheeler says he was reprimanded for using a jeep not assigned to the official motor pool.)

One morning last year, Wheeler was shaving when his wife told him there was a Carlton Sherwood at the door. Sherwood had been sending Wheeler mailgrams and telegrams asking him to respond to the allegations he said would be in his series, but Wheeler, convinced that Sherwood was out to get him, was ignoring them. This time, he let Sherwood in. He began talking but then noticed a small, remote microphone attached to Sherwood's tie, the kind that could transmit to recording equipment. He told Sherwood to take it off, and he did. The next day, Wheeler had Sherwood arrested on his complaint that he was violating a Maryland law against illegal taping of a conversation. The charges were dismissed two days later. Sherwood says there was nothing on the tape; Wheeler says the station recorded some of the conversation but erased it.

"I did it because they violated my family, and they had gone over the limits," says Wheeler. "My kids picked up the tension we felt. My boy wept. If he wants to beat up on me, he could beat up on me somewhere else besides my house, before breakfast."

Controversy aside, Wheeler says the memorial has given him a direction he didn't have before. "This may not be the only thing I'll ever do," he says, "but I do know it's something I'm going to do for the rest of my life." Like all the others, he too has a friend on the wall -- Tommy, his classmate from West Point.

"The memorial means I kept a promise," he says, talking in his office at the SEC. "When I was at Harvard, Tommy was killed in action. I cut class to go to his funeral. I just didn't want to talk about it. This was in Harvard in '68. Tommy's memory will never leave me. He's an example of the best in all of us. I want to live up to that. One day in August, they put the panel up with his name. I saluted. No one saw me, and I didn't cry."

He didn't cry then, but now his eyes fill with tears.

Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism - Thomas Jefferson
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#45 User is offline   Mr_Fred_Smith Icon

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:23 PM

I can't wait for Jane Fonda to run for President in 2008.
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