The Grinding Shed: Enuff Said - The Grinding Shed

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Enuff Said Honeymoon over?

#1 User is offline   chamlisamalkney Icon

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:23 PM

Here are the results!

The Total Number of people who voted in this poll: 134594

1) Who is most to blame for America’s current economic crisis?

74% voted: Clinton Administration and the Democrats in Congress
10% voted: The Bush Administration
2% voted: Wall Street
11% voted: Banks and sub-prime lenders
2% voted: Real estate and mortgage professionals
0% voted: Investors
1% voted: Home buyers

2) Do you agree government bailouts are the answer to America’s financial crisis?
6% voted: Yes
89% voted: No
5% voted: Undecided

3) Do you believe the American taxpayers should have to foot the bill for our financial systems mistakes?
7% voted: Yes, we have to or we’ll end up in a prolonged recession or worse a depression.
23% voted: No, America is too far in debt already.
68% voted: Absolutely not, the American people should never be responsible for bailing out the private sector.
2% voted: Undecided

4) Do you believe the government bailouts will ultimately rescue our country's financial system?
7% voted: Yes
87% voted: No
6% voted: Undecided

5) Do you believe Barack Obama was the best choice to handle the country's future economic policy?
11% voted: Yes
86% voted: No
3% voted: Undecided
I'd rather be destitute (than socialist).
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#2 User is offline   -jeremy- Icon

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:31 PM

The above obviously came from a conservative website?
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#3 User is offline   Alexander Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 06:26 AM

Yeah come on - who was polled, by whom? We all know that 87% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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#4 User is offline   chamlisamalkney Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 12:26 PM

View Post-jeremy-, on Mar 17 2009, 08:17 PM, said:

The above obviously came from a conservative website?


Because it doesn't fit in with your wishful thinking?

Or is it only okay if the post comes from a liberal website?

This post has been edited by chamlisamalkney: 18 March 2009 - 12:37 PM

I'd rather be destitute (than socialist).
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#5 User is offline   chamlisamalkney Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 12:35 PM

View PostAlexander, on Mar 18 2009, 07:12 AM, said:

Yeah come on - who was polled, by whom? We all know that 87% of statistics are made up on the spot.


Actually, in my travels I talk to a lot of people, from machine operators to management and the poll accurately reflects what a lot of people are thinking.

When Bush 2 was re-elected, the vast majority of the liberal dominated press were saying that Kerry was a shoe-in and no way would Bush win. At the
ground level, everyone I was talking to were saying he would win again. At that time I was on the flipside forum, and most there felt that Bush would
lose, their opinion largely based on what they were seeing in the press and their inherent personal leanings. My prediction that Bush would win was
largely scoffed at.

Take the blinders off and examine this current crisis based on the facts, and the truth comes out. The Clinton administration from the start were responsible
for the rules allowing those who could not afford it, to buy homes. This is the root cause of the current crisis. Add to that the fact that Barney Frank covered
up and deceived the public about the true state of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's financial situation (oh yes, his gay lover was in charge there) and the
caterwauling from the democrats starts to show its shaky foundations.

The injection of large scale public money is not going to work. In the end, this money will have to be paid back, largely by the middle class as usual. This is
not a recipe for long term growth.
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#6 User is offline   Alexander Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 01:00 PM

You've still not answered the question, which is interesting - where was that data from?
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#7 User is offline   chamlisamalkney Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 03:24 PM

View PostAlexander, on Mar 18 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

You've still not answered the question, which is interesting - where was that data from?


I dont recall where I picked that up from, but it was linked on CNN website, not exactly a bastion of right wing thought.
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#8 User is offline   -jeremy- Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 07:33 PM

So you're saying if John McCain had been elected he'd know exactly how to get the USA out of this mess? I do remember him having the opportunity to take a stand against the bailout and he didn't. That's almost where he lost my vote (picking Palin was his biggest mistake). For the record I voted for W in 2004 (because Kerry is a long-winded dip-shit), just so you can't say I'm some liberal wacko. We (as in the American public) knew of the economic crisis when the election happened, the big losses in the stock market happened in the summer BEFORE the elections. W certainly didn't help the economy with his war and doubling the deficit, so there's plenty of blame to go around. In fact Obama could not have won WITHOUT the massive failure that George W Bush was as president. You have to know that is true. 23% approval rating for W in the months leading up to the election, the fact that they didn't want him to speak at the convention, need I go on?

Bill Clinton did have the most to do with the housing regulations changing, (not that I'm defending Hillary but she was not in any capacity of power back then), however the banks should also take a part of the blame. They set up people to fail, knowingly letting them take out loans that they would undoubtedly default on. I agree that the taxpayers shouldn't have to foot this bailout, it is not fair.

Anyway I love how you misrepresent the misrepresentation of the "facts" you present here. Simply because some poll that you cite from god knows where says 86% don't believe Obama was the best choice to handle the economic crisis, that it means 86% of Americans now disprove of Obama's ability to lead the USA? That is quite a leap of reasoning.

Look you have the right to your opinions, and for the most part I can agree with what you're saying, but in the future if you're going to post stuff like this a link to the article would help discern propaganda from an actual reliable source. That is all I ask for.
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#9 User is offline   chamlisamalkney Icon

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 08:25 PM

View Post-jeremy-, on Mar 18 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

So you're saying if John McCain had been elected he'd know exactly how to get the USA out of this mess? I do remember him having the opportunity to take a stand against the bailout and he didn't. That's almost where he lost my vote (picking Palin was his biggest mistake). For the record I voted for W in 2004 (because Kerry is a long-winded dip-shit), just so you can't say I'm some liberal wacko. We (as in the American public) knew of the economic crisis when the election happened, the big losses in the stock market happened in the summer BEFORE the elections. W certainly didn't help the economy with his war and doubling the deficit, so there's plenty of blame to go around. In fact Obama could not have won WITHOUT the massive failure that George W Bush was as president. You have to know that is true. 23% approval rating for W in the months leading up to the election, the fact that they didn't want him to speak at the convention, need I go on?

Bill Clinton did have the most to do with the housing regulations changing, (not that I'm defending Hillary but she was not in any capacity of power back then), however the banks should also take a part of the blame. They set up people to fail, knowingly letting them take out loans that they would undoubtedly default on. I agree that the taxpayers shouldn't have to foot this bailout, it is not fair.

Anyway I love how you misrepresent the misrepresentation of the "facts" you present here. Simply because some poll that you cite from god knows where says 86% don't believe Obama was the best choice to handle the economic crisis, that it means 86% of Americans now disprove of Obama's ability to lead the USA? That is quite a leap of reasoning.

Look you have the right to your opinions, and for the most part I can agree with what you're saying, but in the future if you're going to post stuff like this a link to the article would help discern propaganda from an actual reliable source. That is all I ask for.



Please don't put words into my mouth.

All I am saying is that the opinions expressed in the poll largely reflect what I have been hearing from working people this year. Not only that, I believe the working people of this country have seen through this guy in record time.

Please define for me what YOU consider an "actual reliable source".

Oh, and by the way, I took out a home loan during the years preceeding this crisis and I knew exactly what I was getting into. The reason I knew was that the banks were LEGALLY OBLIGATED to explain exactly the terms of payment. I still watched many "mini mansions" get built in my town, and have two new suv's and a speedboat parked outside, when I knew for a fact the income was barely there to support that. These are the people now expecting to be "bailed out" with my money, and yours come to that, wether or not you live in the US.

This post has been edited by chamlisamalkney: 18 March 2009 - 08:29 PM

I'd rather be destitute (than socialist).
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#10 User is offline   -jeremy- Icon

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 12:11 AM

You titled this "Enuff Said: honeymoon over?" what did you mean exactly by that? The way I read that you mean to say the majority of the American people now dislike Obama, and you supported your claim with the poll you posted.

Credible? Well what I would consider credible would be a major news source like Associated Press or Rueters (prefered) or at least CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC, etc. One that will verify the results and not base it upon an internet voting scheme that could be tainted by the same 30 people voting over and over to skew the results. Even if not from a major news source I'd like to see the article for myself. If it had been immediately available to see you got this from conservativewatchdog.com or RushLimbaugh.org I could make the assumptions about you and not bother to comment on this thread. All I want is a source so I can take this seriously.

Time will tell if people have indeed "seen through this guy in record time" when 2012 comes along.
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#11 User is offline   Alexander Icon

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 06:46 AM

I think if nothing else, the thread title "Enuff Said" is wildly misleading! You've pretty much shot your argument in the foot by saying "here's some stats, I can't remember where they're from, but I can remember every single statistic" which is a bit bizarre.

I'm quite sure there are numbers out there to support your standpoint, but if you're not prepared to source them, your point is a bit weak really.
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#12 User is offline   cyprusudo Icon

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:03 AM

View PostAlexander, on Mar 18 2009, 12:12 AM, said:

Yeah come on - who was polled, by whom? We all know that 87% of statistics are made up on the spot.


Heh... I make up better than that!

Missed you bro. Had some tech issues for the last few months. Mainly, We were living out of the grips of the world wide web.

Obama blew it on day one when he didn't send troops home. Reagan spent day one telling of the freed hostages. He was a great president. Obama has followed Bush politically and militarily sending 35,000 to Afghanistan and 300 billion to wall street.. Obama is just the next sucker in office. If you really thought Obama was going to bring the world together, Guess what, He will with Socialism. Don't you people get it ? This is the NEW WORLD ORDER!
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#13 User is offline   Mr_Fred_Smith Icon

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 07:30 PM

I quite like reading the Spectator and the American Spectator, which sounds like where this came from; the views there aren't quite of this world, but they do reflect the way a part of the upper middle class is thinking (I'm not being pejorative here).

I have no particular brief for Obama, who is not really my kind of politician at all (in any case, this is the fault of a model of capitalism espoused by both parties that just happened to occur on Bush's awful watch; but it was his watch, try as the GOP will pretend otherwise), but the idea that this was a "typical" (whatever that is) sample of the electorate is blown sky high by the tiny number of undecided respondents. The one thing that characterises the typical elector at the moment is that, right or left, none of us quite know whether the old Keynesian and moneterist solutions have any application to economies based primarily on service industries; and as for the nuanced neoliberal arguments in favour of regulation versus fiscal stimuli, most people are too aware of just how poor the judgement of economists, bankers and politicians in the West has been to have any faith in the alleged "global consensus".

One thing that people of all political shades can be sure about, though: it doesn't matter what any sample thinks right now. What matters is what will objectively happen, and to what extent mainstream parties can convince us that their policies were responsible. It's also a wonderful opportunities for parties of the right to irresponsibly attack the welfare state, which is exactly what Conservative Home is talking about right now (£100 billion pounds of cuts is the current appraisal of Call Me Dave's pals).
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#14 User is offline   chamlisamalkney Icon

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:58 AM

View Post-jeremy-, on Mar 19 2009, 01:57 AM, said:

Time will tell if people have indeed "seen through this guy in record time" when 2012 comes along.



well, thats for sure.
I'd rather be destitute (than socialist).
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#15 User is offline   chamlisamalkney Icon

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 02:01 AM

View PostAlexander, on Mar 19 2009, 08:32 AM, said:

I'm quite sure there are numbers out there to support your standpoint, but if you're not prepared to source them, your point is a bit weak really.


Of course it isn't. As I have said above in this thread, the statistics in the poll support the discussions I have had with working people (in several locations across the country in fact).
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